2 months on AIP and IBS symtoms are worse

[ifiwasawombat]

Hi!

I've been suffering from IBS symtoms for many years and they got a lot worse in the spring/summer of 2013. At that time I was a vegetarian and was eating more and more fully vegan, not the healthiest vegan/vegetarian diet as I was a student spending long hours in the library. My meals consisted often of stir fried tofu and vegetables with rice. I started experimenting with my diet leaving cow dairy out, avoiding sugar and so on, but my symtoms just got worse and every morning my stomach was in total cramp. That summer I visited a conventional doctor who took the normal tests but found nothing. Then I left gluten out and the horrible cramping went away but I continued to suffer from extreme bloating, gas, constipation and pain. In september 2013 I had my period for the last time, after that it stopped coming and hasn't returned since. In january 2014 a conventional doctor diagnosed me with hashimoto's thyroiditis but found nothing to explain my stomach symtoms. The following spring (after experimenting with a low fodmap, sugar free, milk free, yeast free diet)  I had an appointment at a doctor specialised in functional medicine and she diagnosed me with dysbiosis, I had an overgrowth of klebsiella species bacteria. She also said that I probably have a leaky gut which caused my hashimoto's and that I possibly have SIBO. She also ordered several mineral tests for me and diagnosed a proper deficiency in vitamin b12 and also my ferritin levels were too low. She prescribed me b12 injections and lots of other supplements, and also Cipro antibiotics to kill off Klebsiella. Then she recommended a dietician that I went to to get my diet recommendations. Around 2 weeks after the antibiotic treatment my stomach symtoms were slightly relieved, but never properly. The dietician recommended a diet adjusted to my vegetarianism that addressed dysbiosis. I was to stay away from sugar, fast carbs, cow dairy, beans, fruits except berries and high starch foods like potatoes and maize. I was also advised to rotate my diet because it was likely that I had several food sensitivities. So every morning I ate a different gluten free porridge with different nuts/Seeds and so on. I also left out all the processed foods and baked my own gluten free breads, made a lot of veggie soups and so on. I followed this diet for about 2-3 months but my symtoms were only at maximum relieved for a couple of days and then I would eat something that would trigger horrible bloating and pain again. I was also using l-glutamine to heal my gut, aloe vera gel, probiotics and berberine which is a natural antibiotic to ward off klebsiella. But no, no help. So in the autumn I added fish to my diet and tried a total elimination diet, during which I ate only fish, quinoa, full-grain rice, sweet potaoes, amaranth, carrots, olive oil, coconut oil, herbs, black pepper and berries. This I did for around a month, and my stomach was better than in 2 years! Then I tried slowly re-introducing foods but I reacted to pretty much everything, and severely. If I ate a little bit of beets it took several days for my stomach to calm down. During this elimination diet I was starting to feel really weak and hungry all the time so I gave up on the reintroduction and just added more foods that I could handle somewhat. Because I realised that my stomach won't ever heal if I keep eating soy products and lentils that my stomach obviously can't handle I decided to start eating meat again and go paleo. I thought that even though my gut feels okay on a simple rice based diet it won't heal. So I wanted to try AIP to finally HEAL my stomach and be able to tolerate more foods again.

Now I've been following AIP for around 2 months, and even though my symtoms were okay in the beginning they slowly started getting worse and worse and the last 3 weeks they've been worse than all autumn. Since august I've also been going to an acupuncturist regularly which in the beginning significantly relieved my symtoms, also every time I had a bad flare, but now even the acupuncture won't help. And I've adjusted AIP to my IBS since the beginning, I followed a low for map approach, tried to limit starches but noticed that if I limit them too much I feel way too weak and can't function. I've left out all foods I've noticed I react to, like coconut oil. I usually only eat one type of veggie per meal and I don't eat any raw vegetables at all. I followed all the advices for adjusting paleo to IBS that I've been able to find. I've tried bone broths, but even chicken broth soup causes me severe digestive distress. Now I react so badly to everything that the last week the only non-starchy veggies I've been able to eat are carrots and spinach. 

I don't know what to do anymore. Today I had blood tests done to check for food sensitivities but I won't get those results until a month or so. Today I bought home white rice and made a porridge out of it, it was my acupuncturist advice to calm down my stomach. I didn't want to break the AIP but I don't know what to do, and white rice usually relieves IBS symtoms for most people. I also bought Aloe vera gel a month ago even though Sarah doesn't approve it on AIP, but it helps relieve my symtoms. 

If it's SIBO that's causing my symtoms why haven't they gotten at all better on AIP? Could GAPS be the answer? Or is it maybe not the bacterial overgrowths but just a very irritated stomach lining.. If my stomach has gotten more irritated on AIP, is there any point in continuing? I'm afraid I'll make my symtoms worse with eating soluble fiber and white rice, but my stomach can't handle a low-carb approach with the amount of veggies needed. Otherwise I would have tried a more low carb, SIBO starving approach since the beginning. I'm really clueless regarding what to do. 

This became a huge post but I felt I had to explain how much I've really tried healing my gut. Otherwise I've noticed improvements in my energy level and bloodsugar crashes are gone since I've started AIP. And I'm not hungry all the time anymore!

[pollie]

Hi Ifi! I wish I was knowledgable, but I have been listening ot a great webinar from the site. underground wellness.com. A Dr called Orecchio has developed a program that can help dx just what is happening in the gut without all the testing and guessing. They are starting a trial class thingy which is full, but maybe if you go there you could get a consult with the Dr.s that they recommend. Sounds like you've done many of the conventional tests to try and eliminate the bug, but the gut flora still isn't in balance. Hope you get help! All I'm suffering is from menopause issues! God Bless!

[ifiwasawombat]

Hi! Thank you for your response, Pollie. Thanks for the tip and the link! I couldn't find any info about Dr Orecchio or the trial class, but I'll search the website again. I know I could also contact the Paleo Mom consultants but I just can't afford it. The food sensitivity test and another visit to the dietician will mean another 400 e bill. I just hope the food sensitivity test will help. Today I'm cooking meat stock, if it would help calm down my stomach. I haven't probably been drinking enough meat stock/bone broth, maybe that's the missing puzzle piece for me... It's just so time consuming to make.

[unagi]

I had something very similar to your case (IBS, IgG/IgA high levels to basically everything etc), but for me it worked pretty well to heal my gut with the autoimmune protocol before i slowly introduced foods again. The mistake i made is that i started combining fruit in my meals as a carb source, and now whenever i eat fruit on a not - completely empty stomach i get extreme bloating etc. Somewhere along all the intense focus/stress with food the last year I probably forgot how to chew my food properly and how to swallow food/drink without swallowing excess air. I was about to give up as a doctor gave me the typical annoying tip "try to not swallow air when you eat/drink". At the moment I just wanted to become violent, but then afterwards I thought about it and I thought oh well, I might aswell try to focus intensely on breathing out before i swallow. Guess what, it cured everything! It's amazing how this society can cause us to forget how to eat/drink.

[ifiwasawombat]

That's the thing, I just can't wrap my head around the fact that my gut is worse than when beginning AIP. It seems to help most people who have tried everything else. During AIP I started reacting to even more foods even more severely.. I just don't get it. The pain I feel now when I eat something I can't tolerate is horrible. One problem could be that I've been eating too much of the same foods for a long time.

I made meat stock yesterday (bone broth that I only cooked for 6 hours) and noticed that I definitely seem to have issues with digesting fat. Been feeling quite nauseous after drinking the broth and also got stomach pain from it when I drank it in the morning. In the afternoon when I drank a little bit between meals with less fat it felt better. I'm already using Enzymedica's Digest Gold but I'm wondering if I should order Ox bile as well. I'm just using so many different supplements, I'm sick of it. But if I can't digest fat that could also explain why I'm feeling worse on AIP... How could I support my bile production naturally without supplements? Should I keep eating fat even if I have issues with it?

That's an important point, to chew your food properly. I've been trying to pay attention to chewing and eating slowly, and even though I eat slowly I often catch myself not chewing rushing or not chewing properly enough. Eating has become very stressful for me now when everything makes me sick, I don't know how to end that vicious cycle since I know i can't digest food properly while eating stressed.

I'm glad to hear that your issues have been cured though

[unagi]

Thank you! Did you ever have a proper IgG/igA food intolerance test? In my case I had extreme reactions to beef(which is also why i had to stay away from milk products as the protein is similar and can cause cross alergy reaction)/nuts/cranberries/wheat/coffee/eggs/shellfish/some fish like cod. The thing is, if i had started on a the paleo autoimmune protocol before i stayed away from all these foods for 6 months im sure I would have destroyed my stomach even further. I'm a little bit surprised the paleo mom doesn't write (atleast not that i noticed) about how people might have developed reactions to the most basic foods like beef/fish etc. In my case, apparently i had destroyed my gut with all the wheat, stress, and over training which caused undigested food particles to join the bloodstream which again caused the production of these IgG/IgA cells (as i understand it).

second question: you write that: "I ate only fish, quinoa, full-grain rice, sweet potaoes, amaranth, carrots, olive oil, coconut oil, herbs, black pepper and berries. This I did for around a month, and my stomach was better than in 2 years!
" Maybe you should try to go back to this for the time being if this worked for you? People are different by genetics, and what food is good for you is not necessarily what's good for everyone else. Do your parents have/had these kind of issues aswell? What kind of food do they do well with?

third question: From what you describe happened to you when you started eating beets, it sounds like you have a very low stomach acid, are you drinking too much water? Or eating too much leafy greens containing oxylates and other stuff?

I'm really not educated in this area, but i find it extremely interesting, and I think we can learn by sharing our stories and experiences with each others. I sincerely hope you don't have to suffer for much longer.

[ifiwasawombat]

Thanks a lot for your reply! I just had the blood works done for an IgE,IgG/IgA food intolerance test last week, but I won't get the results until around 3 weeks. That's interesting that you had such an extreme reaction to even beef! I really hope the results will help me adjust my diet in a way that would finally give me some relief and help my gut heal. I was for a long time unsure if the test is worth the money, since many people seem to be of different opinion about it, but it gladdens me to hear that you found it helpful.

To answer your second question, that's what I'm basically asking myself everyday too.. Should I just give up on being grain free, and go back to eating rice and other gluten free grains. Since it did work for me, and after starting AIP it's slowly been getting worse and worse. BUT the thing is that my other symtoms, like horrible fatigue, joint pain, itching, dry skin and dry eyes have gotten better. When I was eating grains I felt hungry and weak all the time. But maybe this time I could adjust it using paleo principles, like still eating more protein and as much fat as I can tolerate. But last week when I tried eating white rice it did cause bloating and gas, and the itching returned. So that's why I don't know if it's smart to reintroduce it. And should I eat white rice or full grain?

Neither my parents or my sisters have these kinds of issues. All I know is that my Mom is prone to constipation and mostly eats lots of salads, doesn't like sweet stuff and also says that bread causes bloating. But other than that, nothing like these issues I have.

I've tried not drinking too much before or during meals, and i'm also supplementing on Betaine HCL since I've noticed it helps with burping after/during meals. I am eating lots of spinach and taro though, do they affect the stomach acid production?

Thank you really for your concern, it feels so hopeless struggling with this alone. The thought of returning to eating grains feels difficult after reading so much about Paleo and AIP, I really want it to work for me... But obviously it doesn't, not right now. Before paleo my thought was that even though eating rice and quinoa keeps my symtoms away, my stomach won't heal if I keep feeding bad bacteria and causing a leaky gut. Because I didn't manage to reintroduce almost any foods. But maybe I just should have been more patient.

I've been drinking bone broth now since friday but my symptoms are only worse. I'm guessing it's the fat I can't tolerate. It doesn't seem like die-off. So maybe I should stay away from fatty foods now, try some rice and see if my stomach calms down. I noticed that eating low-carb reduces bloating, but I can't eat it for more than a couple of meals since there's not enough veggies for me to eat instead of starches.

Yes, I'm really in the need of this kind of a community. It really helps to read other people's stories, and especially to get support and advice. Thank you!!

[unagi]

I see, i would hold my breath for the intolerance test for now. I see you have indeed thought about many things, and i think you are right that you should keep sticking with paleo for the time being if your other symptoms improved. The thoughts that are in our minds as we eat food are really important after all, and the science does really back it up, so it's easy to have good thoughts while eating it I'd say stop drinking bone broth and try lay off spinach for a while. Personally i noticed my burping after/during meals/all day was due to spinach. Especially the green smoothies i made with spinach/fruit i couldn't handle after a few months. "http://www.livestrong.com/article/529555-what-are-the-effects-of-too-much-spinach/" Do you suspect that you dont tolerate fat in general, or might it only be different oils? If you were to eat rice, then i would definitely go for the white rice and have lots of protein and veggies with it. I do hear that some people can't absorb fat too well for some reason, continue your experiments and keep us posted! Hope you can post the results of your intolerance test when you got it, it will be extremely interesting!

[ifiwasawombat]

Yes, I will try to stay calm and wait for the intolerance test results. But I did start eating white rice when my stomach didn't want to calm down any other way, and with christmas and all I needed some peace in my mind. It has helped, and my stomach pains have been relieved and the bloating a little bit as well. But it did bring me constipation, which isn't fun. And aches around the body/joints have returned and I'm guessing it's the rice. But I've also eaten green beans to have something instead of the spinach. After I get the intolerance results I will probably try to do the elimination diet again, if my stomach can handle it. I just hope that I don't make a possible dysbiosis or SIBO worse with eating rice now. But I don't even know if it's the bacterial flora that is still an issue or just the leaky gut and food sensitivities.

Thanks for the tip about spinach! It's just so hard to eat enough veggies now when I can't tolerate anything. But I have to try to take it slow and not think too much about what I'm eating now when it's not possible for me to eat in an optimal way. I think I can't digest fats in general.. I hope the Ox bile will help, I ordered it last week. I also think that I have problems digesting beef, even though I use Betaine HCL (I take 2 capsules of 650 mg) and digestive enzymes. Will be interesting to see if I possibly have a food sensitivity to beef or if it's just my digestion that is so comprised.

It gladdens me that you find this interesting, it's nice to have someone to talk to who knows about this stuff. Talking to family and friends is difficult when they simply have no idea what's going on and can't follow my diets and trials. I will post my results when I get them!

[farmfresh]

I hope the test results clear things up for you. I finally got tested after not seeing enough improvement with the SCDiet , turns out I have a strong intolerance of dairy,which I had been eating not realizing the milk protein was causing a delayed reaction. I have a bunch of other inTolerances too. Oddly enough with the exception of nightshades I had high markers for everything non AIP . And I have found that tomatoes and peppers do bother me a lot. I had a hard time staying SCDIET when I still didn't feel great not that AIP is easy but it feels worth it now. I hope such is the case for you, that you feel better that is.

[bugsy]

Beets is number one to thin the bile, also lemon, dandilion greens, cucumber, artichokes are all foods I can think off the top of my head that thin the bile.

[ifiwasawombat]

Hi!

I finally got the results from the IgG and IgE test. I had very low anti-bodies towards 8 foods, 1 + towards apricots, pineapple and asparagus. I had only one strong, 3 + reactions and it was to buckwheat. I guess this is a positive thing, apparently my gut isn't so leaky after all? But most of the foods that it tested I had already eliminated, long ago. So I won't know if I would react to e.g. rice, dairy or tomatoes. The disappointment is that all of these foods it shows antibodies to I've also already eliminated from my diet, over 2 months before I took the test. So it's weird that they showed up. I'm guessing the antibodies would have been stronger if I would have taken the test while I was still eating those foods, for example soy. At least it shows that I've gone in the right direction by removing soy, beans, fruits and buckwheat from my diet. The only bad thing is that the results doesn't tell why I still have so severe digestive issues. The only thing that I'm still eating that I have very low antibodies to is yeast. I've been taking saccharomyces boulardii everyday for a long time. Maybe, I'll find some relief by omitting it..?

I feel so exhausted. I have no idea in what direction I should go with my diet. I'm gonna go see my dietician again as soon as I have time. But last time she already said that she can't help me anymore (until I take the food sensitivity test), so I'm afraid she'll just tell me to make a new appointment to my doctor, now when the test results don't tell us much. This has to be SIBO or something, right? It just can't only be because of stress... Yesterday I tried eating quinoa because the white rice is causing bloating and gas when I'm eating it all the time. Now today my stomach pain is even worse and I had a little bit of itching on my arm, where I used to get eczema. So even those foods that used to be my safe foods are causing me issues. The ox bile didn't help, it may even have worsened my symtoms, I'm not sure.

I would really want to eat AIP or even conventional Paleo, but the fact that my gut issues worsened so badly since I started AIP just makes it feel hopeless. I don't know what to eat anymore, at all. When I ate only whole grain rice, amaranth, quinoa, sweet potatoes, fish, berries and herbs my stomach felt so much better. But otherwise I felt quite lousy. itchy skin, fatigued, hungry all the time etc. It feels like AIP is good for my autoimmune symtoms but my gut can't handle it, and with the whole grain diet my gut is better but my other symtoms worse. I feel like I'm in a dead end situation.

[barbara50]

Have you tried Apple Cider Vinegar (raw, with mother). I wouldn't use it and the Betaine HCL.. I googled low stomach acid and found really good info there on ACV and how it helps. It has helped me.. I too have been following AIP. I feel your frustration. Sometimes I wonder if all the food, and prep thoughts are causing added stress that might be contributing to the worsening symptoms. One more thing to mention about rice. Do stay with white over brown as it is so much easier to digest. When I tried adding it I made sure it was GMO free. Not sure if that is an issue where you live. Good luck to you

[unagi]

Man that sucks, couldn't you ask for which foods to be checked beforehand or something? Can't you now atleast eat the food that you know you're supposed to tolerate well? Stress should not be underestimated in my experience, it can be the cause of basically everything. Remember that humans are not meant to deal with the long term stress we are exposed to in society. In the end if you eat in fight and flight mode instead of rest and digest mode, it doesn't matter what you eat. Your body won't have it.